tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN May 14, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
and the fact that that momentum is kept up after all this time is truly incredible. one of the sad things, we don't know what the people in the middle think. we know what the regime thinks, ma the demonstrators think. we don't know about the scared people in the middle who are afraid to talk to us who we can't reach who are watching their country torn apart. thank you for watching this "360." i hope you heard the voices of the people here. voices that the regime of barber al assad has tried to science for 14 months. erin burnett starts now.
about the case against george zimmerman. the man charged with killing trayvon martin. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. outfront tonight we have breaking news. the market today dropped about 125 points, thanks to greece and jpmorgan. deepening trading losses at the bank today. the total losses for america's biggest bank, at this moment we tell you could now be $4 billion. just on friday we were telling you it was only $3 billion and you may have seen reports the day before that it was $2 billion. jpmorgan is about to face a firing squad here in washington. at the bank today heads started to roll. the first out was the woman, the top chief investment officer. she made $30 million in compensation in the past two years. it's unclear how much of that may be clawed back related to
recent reform. we're always just hours away from a more public showdown. jamie dimon will be facing fire at the company's annual meeting in tampa. jamie likes a fight but you can bet he's not thrilled about the timing of this. here in the halls of the senate there's an investigation in the works. senator bob corker is a man who called for the hearings and he's outfront tonight. good to see you, senator. >> good to be with you, erin. >> what do you want to find out? >> well, this is an interesting point in time. rules are being promulgated right now that affect all of these things. the question is, under current laws that have been passed, if they're fully in place, was this in fact a proprietary trade or not, which is something we don't want to see happening in these institutions, or was this really a legitimate hedge that would take place within an institution. we've been getting a lot of, you know, this has evolved.
we had a lot of conversations this weekend with the examiner in charge at the occ that oversees jpmorgan. we got one piece of input that's evolved, that walked back away from that. i guess at the end of the day this is very complex. this is certainly no threat whatsoever to jpmorgan as far as it being a going engt tee. >> it's small relative to their assets. >> the issue is there are a lot of rules being created right now. whenever you have especially something this high profile, it's going to affect the outcome of what's actually happening right now in washington. >> but you're saying looking at the top accountants and auditors who are looking at this, they still are not able to determine whether it was proprietary, i.e. should not be happening under the new rules, or legitimate? >> right. and those rules aren't in effect yet. the question is what's really happened here and do we have laws that affect what's been happening. there's some very specific language in the volcker rule that talks about hedging and it
talks about aggregate, it talks about unique trades and the fact is nobody yet has been able to determine whether this is something that could stay in place or not. >> but jpmorgan itself, is it possible you could do something about the bank? you talk about it being small ojt bank, and it is. and some people say, oh, well that's a sign that the system is strong. then you could say why is the bank so big. it's 45% bigger in terms of assets. $2.3 trillion in assets. it's 45% bigger now than it was right before the financial crisis, just to be clear. >> yeah. >> i mean is that okay? >> that is a whole different issue. you know, there was resolution language that actually spent a lot of time on myself that you create the opportunity to wind -- you have the ability to wind down an institution that fails. but again, that's a whole separate issue. >> but you could make the argument it isn't. you could say if it were smaller, jamie dimon would have known what was going on. >> so here's the question. under volcker, is this something
that is legitimate after volcker is fully implemented? a lot of people are saying yes. secondly, there are people who say that this couldn't have happened if you had the glass-steagall regime in place. the occ has categorically said that's not true, this could still have occurred. and if you downsize the institutions, this kind of trade could still occur. so i think we need to understand how this occurred. it was all on the banking side, not on the investment bank side. and do we have policies that appropriately deal with this? so this is, again, very unique, very specific, very complex. >> right. >> we only had one hearing on the volcker rule prior to making it law. >> unique and specific, i feel like we hear that every time there's a big trading loss. they are all unique and specific. that's the problem. >> human beings do bone-headed things. in a business like this, things
like this are going to occur. we need to make sure we try to regulate properly. but the best antidote to this are to have capital requirements that are sufficient. as we mentioned earlier, this is a very large institution. the riskiest thing they do is to make a loan. what we need to ensure is that capital requirements are strong enough. in this case, obviously, way beyond that. >> now, you're speaking for reform so i don't mean to imply that you're not. your top contributor was jpmorgan chase. you're up for re-election. do you feel conflicted? do you feel like you're more likely to be sympathetic listening to jamie dimon because he gives you a lot of money? >> my race last time was a national race that was huge. people contributed from all walks of life. i was the first person who called for a hearing here, so i don't think that's the case at all. i know it's not the case. and, no, i don't feel conflicted. look, i tell these guys when
they come in, i just had this same conversation with jamie dimon recently and a group of other people here, i'm not a friend of banking, i'm not a foe of banking. what i want to see is that we have capital markets in this country that function appropriately, that we have a financial system that meets the needs of an economy like we have in the u.s. and i just want to see it work in the appropriate way. one of the biggest setbacks we've had to our economy is the crisis in this financial system that sets us back years. so i want to make sure that we have good outcomes here. and senators are not basing judgments on this or things that they believe to be perceptions, but the reality of what's actually happened in this case and hopefully a hearing will help us do that. >> senator, thank you very much. senator corker joining me here in washington. now let's check in with john avlon in new york. john, what are your thoughts? i'm curious about your thoughts of lobbying dollars going from
industries to committees that regulate those industries. >> well, the growth of lobbying over the past decade in particular has been a real problem. many people point to it for not just the increased spending that we've seen but things like the lobbying that has watered down the volcker rule. much of it was pursued by jpmorgan chase. so lobbyists do have their thumb on the scale. it's contributed to a lot of the frustration people feel at home, the sense washington isn't working. lobbyists are part of the reason why. >> so do you think, john, that we'll be able to get reforms or what's your sense? >> well, look, follow the money. that's one of the tougher things to do. certainly in this specific case calling for a hearing is a step in the right direction. the question is, is it not just about asking regulators what went wrong but bringing members of jpmorgan chase. this is all complicated by the fact that jpmorgan chase has been the responsible bank and power fully arguing against regulation, against the volcker rule. well, that argument will be a lot tough tore make going forward as we find out this loss isn't $2 billion but perhaps $4
billion or higher. this is a complicated position they find themselves in of their own making. >> yes, absolutely of their own making an completely avoidable as well. ahead, senator dianne feinstein joins me to talk about evidence of a possible weapons test, explosive test for a nuclear weapon in iran. and president obama slamming mitt romney at bain capital calling him a job-killing vampire on the same day that he had lunch with a private equity titan to raise money. and hangings and decap takeses. we'll look at what could be the biggest threat in this country. it's not in the middle middle east. it's across our southern border ♪ i hear you... ♪ rocky mountain high ♪ rocky, rocky mountain high ♪ ♪ all my exes live in texas ♪ ♪ born on the bayou [ female announcer ] the perfect song for everywhere can be downloaded almost anywhere.
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our second story outfront, countdown to an iran showdown. there is new evidence today that iran is moving forward with a nuclear weapons program, just as talks are getting under way to convince the country to stop its suspected program. negotiators from the international atomic energy agency today left the iranian mission in vienna in silence. usually they'll take the opportunity to talk to them and say something. they said nothing. the iaea is in the middle of its first talks with iran in three months. the latest report from the agency, you may recall, said
there were strong indications of possible nuclear weapons development. indications like this picture from the associated press in today's "washington post." let me just explain what you're looking at because i looked at this and said what is this, something that could be in my backyard. it's a drawing of what's believed to be a nuclear explosion containment chamber hidden at a secret military base perhaps at a site where the government has refused weapons inspectors access to. experts say a chamber like this is what you use to test a nuclear weapon. we talked to them and they confirmed that. important to say, though, that this picture is not a picture that we have confirmed the authenticity of. there are, though, new signs that the economic sanctions against iran are working. take this story on the front page of the "washington post." iran's unsold oil kept on tankers." they're turning off the gps on the tankers because it's against maritime law to do so. then they're trying to sail into ports and find anyone to buy their oil.
earlier today i spoke to senator dianne feinstein. he is a key leader in the senate, chairman of the senate intelligence committee and i began by asking her what it will take to reach an agreement with iran. >> i think all of us pretty much know what the parameters of an agreement are. and i think we also know the window is closing, that israel is quite adamant that this is an existential threat, that she will not let iran achieve a nuclear warhead and that means all kinds of unpredictable military actions. >> when you say everyone is on the same page about a deal, i was talking to prime minister netanyahu and he said he would allow no enrichment, not even the 3% that you would be using if you were using nuclear power for medical use or things like that. that doesn't really seem to be the same page as the united states, though, right? the united states would accept a little bit more, right? >> i don't think that's the united states' position.
i think it's confined enrichment to 5%, limited to the medical isotopes. move anything above 5% out of the country or secure it, have full transparency and 24/7/365 day a year access for the iaea to all these sites. and then be willing to also talk about other things, which is what the iranians have wanted to do. i am hopeful. in my view it's the best chance of a solution. of course this is the p-5 plus one, so it's a unique bargaining agent, you might say. >> when you talk about access, i want to ask you about israel in a second, israel issue, but access. i have this picture which i know looks a little strange. the associated press obtained this from a government that is skeptical of iran's honesty in its nuclear program and they say this is a chamber used for testing explosives of nuclear weapons.
we did make some calls and experts did say indeed this could be consistent with that but we haven'tindependently identified the source government. apparently it's at a site that the iaea has not gotten access to after repeated requests. how big of a problem is this? >> well, number one, i've never seen that picture. it could be from anywhere so a comment could be useless. i can say this, the decision as far as our intelligence is concerned is that iran has not made the decision to enrich to military grade uranium. now, having said that, there's no comment on whether they have speeded things up so they could get to that position, so that if a decision was made, it would go more quickly. so i mean i think that's what's out there. there's one other thing. the sanctions are biting. they're biting deeply.
additional sanctions will go into play with the central bank. and so by june or july, the sanctions should be approximately full tilt. >> iran is going to ask for the sanctions to be rolled back. don't put those really tough sanctions that europe was going to be putting on this summer, don't do it, because we've made progress. that's what they're going to ask for. is there any way you think that the united states at least would say, okay, we don't have to put that extra round of sanctions on, or is that something that must go forward to get the final deal done. >> well, this is just my deal. >> yes. >> my view is the sanctions should not be lessened until and if there is a final deal concurred in by all. >> and that leads me to israel. you say the u.s. and israel aren't necessarily on the same page. prime minister netanyahu telling me nothing, you telling me up to 5%. how will we bridge that gap? if they say zero and we say five
and they strike, we're going to be involved. >> well, there is a strong difference between the united states and israel. there also is a strong likelihood that if israel were to attack, the united states would be drawn into what would become rapidly another war with iran that could have catastrophic consequences throughout the middle east. and one of the things that we don't do well is follow through on figuring out if you do this and they do that, then what happens? do we support israel? israel is close to us. obviously we're going to back up israel. then, is it war? and then what does the rest of the middle east do? >> is it war, the big question that everyone has to be thinking very much about here in the senate and washington and in this country over the next few months. next on "outfront" prosecutors filing new evidence just this afternoon. i have some crossing right now, regarding the shooting of trayvon martin and the case
against george zimmerman. and the president goes after mitt romney and his record at bain capital. plus we're going inside the drug wars from mexico. an amazing statistic. did you know that 90% of the cocaine in this country comes from mexico, and 70% of the guns that are used in mexican drug crime come from right here in the u.s.? we'll be back. [ woman ] it's like a magnet. pulling us together for different reasons. music. games. photos. shows. we share stories, laugh... and truly engage. it brings us closer and that is my happy place. ♪ [ male announcer ] the best family moments happen in an instant. capture them with internet explorer and a powerful dell pc. who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone.
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new evidence coming to light tonight in the murder case against george zimmerman. he, of course, is the neighborhood watchman who's admitted to shooting trayvon martin. now, the orlando sentinel reported late this afternoon that the special prosecutor's office filed an eight-page preview of their case with the county clerk. now, in it nearly two dozen primary witnesses are listed. there's also some never-before-seen video and more than 50 recorded audio statements that the state plans to use at the trial. coming outfront on this story, our legal analyst, mark nejame. i feel like everyone will say what, a new video, what is this new video? >> well, we have a lot of things coming out but it's just the beginning. you'll see a lot more coming out over time. i think there's about 18 police officers from the sanford police
department who are on the witness list. there are 67 cds coming out that will have a lot of information on it. and there's two videos, as i understand it. one from the 7-eleven and one from the clubhouse. so we're going to be getting a whole bunch of new information. i'm not sure if some of the most important information is coming out in this first wave. the autopsy reports i think will be extremely relevant. an enhancement of the 911 tapes are extremely relevant. and knowing where everybody was, the proximity of where the shooting occurred, the clubhouse, the car, where he was staying, all those are important pieces that i don't know if those are going to come out in the first wave. i'm anxious to see if they do. >> why would they come out in waves? because literally they don't have it all together or is this standard procedure? how much more do you think there is and when will we get it? >> well, it's entirely possible they have not completed everything yet and they're not going to turn it over until in fact they are. and if i could, you had indicated earlier that all this
was information they were planning on using. not necessarily. in florida we have very open discovery laws. if there's something that's favorable or unfavorable, it still needs to be turned over to the defense and then a determination will be made if one side or the other plans on using it and if it's even admissible in court. there's very open discovery and everything has to be turned over. >> we just found out zimmerman's lawyer just got the package late tonight and presumably he's try to block all of this from going public. will he succeed? >> he'll have an uphill battle, that's for sure. we have very -- as i said, very open not only discovery, but sunshine laws in florida. so he'll have to make an argument that the public's right to know is far outweighed by the public policy of protecting the safety of some of these witnesses because of the possibility of some death threats or injury or harm coming to some of these witnesses, to
possibly being harassed and witness tampering. one would imagine that he would try to bring that out to show that the public safety outweighs the public's right to know. it will be an uphill battle. >> mark, how in the world will they find a jury that isn't full of people that have opinions on this case? everybody in this country has an opinion on this case. >> everybody who's watching cnn has an opinion on the case but that doesn't necessarily mean everybody is in fact watching it. it's interesting to find those of us who follow matters such as this, it's water cooler talk and we all follow it and are interested in it. but there's many people who don't follow these matters and the challenge becomes are those really people you want on a jury who remain so utterly misinformed, but that's what happens. >> especially when they live in the area. thanks very much to mark. appreciate it. ahead, 49 mutilated bodies dumped in mexico. an absolutely horrific act. we'll talk about that and tell you exactly why it's happening and why it could be the biggest threat to this country. and the president going
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loss on trades. the chief investment officer, ina drew, the first person out. she made more than $30 million in the past two years. she headed the unit that has lost what could be now $4 billion. tomorrow ceo jamie dimon will be answering shareholders at the company's annual meeting in tampa. number two, a group representing palestinian prisoners has reached a deal with israel to end a hunger strike. that strike began all the way back april 17th. the announcement of the deal sent crowds to the streets of gaza to celebrate. 2,000 prisoners were protesting their treatment in israeli prisons. it covers when a prisoner can be moved into solitary confinement and will allow family members to visit. there are over 4500 palestinian prisoners in israeli jails tonight. $16 billion. that's the size of california's deficit. and it's nearly twice as big as governor jerry brown estimated four months ago. if he were running a bank, he's be facing some problems right now. but today he said he wants to cut state payrolls by 5% and
hike taxes on the wealthy. i asked dianne feinstein about the crisis and she brought up one specific individual. >> i was reading about one high-tech executive that because of capital gains was going to leave his citizenship and move to -- or become a citizen of singapore. >> the facebook guy. >> yeah. well, i say let him go. i can't think of anything more disloyal to do, candidly. >> the man's name is eduardo. he's 30 years old and was the founder of facebook. reports say he'll save $600 million in taxes by becoming a citizen of singapore, which has no capital gains tax. yahoo!'s ceo is out. scott thompson resigned over the weekend after it was revealed he didn't have the computer science degree that he claimed. we took a look through the latest s.e.c. filings and here's what he'll get. no severance but the $7 million he recently collected in cash and stock. yahoo! has named ross levinsohn
the current ceo. it's been 284 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? i'm sitting here in the senate, where is everybody? our fourth story outfront, one of the biggest threats to this country and it's much closer than a lot of people think. you think of the middle east somewhere or you think of china. no, it's mexico. investigators are trying today to identify 49 bodies that were found mutilated beyond belief and recognition. stuffed in plastic bags in a small town of san juan, yesterday. that's less than 100 miles from the american border. the bodies are 43 men and 6 women were found headless with no feet and no hands. they are victims of mexico's drug cartel. more than 47,000 people, 47,000 people, just think about that for a minute, have been killed in mexico since president felipe calderon launched an offensive against drug cartels in 2006.
99 have been killed in brutal fashion like what i just described in just the past month as the two biggest cartels fight for control of mexico's border with the united states. why do they fight for control of that border? because the drug wars are continuing. 90% of the cocaine that enters the american country comes through mexico. it's also the main supplier of marijuana and meth in this country. so the question is what else is getting into the united states that we don't know about? the former head of the border protection and now a principal at the chertoff group, and a former undercover i.n.s. agent and author of "the shadow catcher." appreciate you both taking the time. jay, let me just ask you, it seems like the violence is getting much, much worse. what i just described with the heads and the feet cut off, this is brutality at a level that i think is hard to imagine but it appears to be at this point, dare i say common? >> yeah, i think when you take a
look the numbers may be closer to 50,000 since december of 2006 when president calderon really started to take the fight to the cartels. we've seen it start to level a little bit in the last few months. leveling is really a statement of choice here, that about 1,000 killings per month. but the gravity and the heinousness of the killings this past few days really shows as far as how aggressive and how ruthless these individuals are. beyond just the beheadings, the cutting off of the arms and legs sends a strong signal. >> it certainly does. how -- is this really about controlling -- who's controlling the drugs going into the united states? this is still a question of u.s. demand and supply that is not necessarily from mexico but transiting through mexico? >> yes to both of your questions. >> sorry, go ahead. >> i think what you have -- i'm sorry. what you have are two cartels that are actually fighting for a
very lucrative route, and i think this violence is going to continue. jay was talking about sending a signal and i think would it sending a strong signal to anybody who opposes the cartels in that area. i think the violence will continue the next few months. we have a presidential election coming up in mexico and i think some of the cartels are positioning themselves to make sure that they control this particular areas for a number of reasons. >> and let me ask you, jay, about something else. i don't know if everyone remembers but obviously there was a plot that the united states government alleges was put forth by the iranian government using an iranian american in texas who was hiring a mexican drug cartel to commit an assassination that would have killed civilians right here in washington, d.c. we also, of course action heard from air force general douglas frazier who testified on whether there was other terrorist activities going on in mexico to get into the united states, and here's what he said. >> those organizations are
primarily focused on financial support to organizations back in the middle east, but they are involved in illicit activity. and so that is the connection that we continue to look for, as we watch in the future, that connection between the illicit activity and the potential pathway into the united states. >> jay, how big of a risk is this, that other terrorist activities could be working with drug cartels to get into the united states? >> i think one of the things that's important to recognize, these are criminal organizations and they certainly will diversify what their level of criminality is. whether drugs today, weapons tomorrow or a need to move high-valued targets across the border. that was a great piece of work by the federal agencies specifically doing drug investigations and uncovered the individual who was contemplating an assassination attempt. clearly these are criminals and they'll do anything they can for a profit going forward. >> hipoli one thing i find hard
to understand and the whole fast and furious controversy, there are 6,600 licensed gun dealers in the united states within 100 miles of the mexican border. 70% of the guns recovered from mexican drug activity had originated here in the united states. we're the ones arming this whole problem, right? >> well, you know, but let's understand one thing. the guns were going into mexico way before fast and furious occurred. whether we would have had fast and furious or not. i think that the -- frankly, the mexican government needs to stand up and stop blaming the united states for arming them. they have -- they need to address the issue of the cartel that say they have in mexico and certainly we work very closely with foreign governments to stop the illegal flow of weapons in any direction. but i think that weapons were long available in mexico before fast and furious. i think that the efforts that our government is doing to stop that flow is commendable because
our agents work very hard to stop that flow of weapons into mexico. >> jay, do you think it's fair to say that the biggest threat to the united states could be from our southern border, whether from drug wars or other terrorist organizations? you know, i was in laos a year ago and a mexican drug dealer had been with someone i was with doing a deal for drugs coming from southeast asia, so it's certainly more than colombian cocaine now. >> sure it is. but erin, let's put a couple of things in perspective. certainly when youing agate the amount of cartel deaths, again action 47,000 or 50,000, it's more than any other loss of life anywhere else on the globe so that poses a significant threat. let's also focus on some of the facts that occurred the last few years as well. when you take a look at the apprehensions at the border, last year was 340,000. that's down 53% and one-fifth in 2000. so when you actually take a look
at the fence being built, the deployment of additional agents, personnel and technology, there's a higher degree of control on the border today. that's not to say that 300,000 is an adequate number to apprehend, we need to do better, but i think the key to continue to make sure we protect the country is to continue the strategy of not only controlling our own border but mexico needs to control the borders coming into their country from central and south america where all of those drugs originate. >> thanks very much to both of you. this will be an issue we'll cover a lot more of on this show. coming up, president obama's brand new attack ad accusing mitt romney of killing we'll tell you what. plus turmoil and greece and the domino effect that might hit us right here at home. we're america's natural gas
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apple and exxon are in bed together an we're going to explain exactly, well, why this marriage has occurred. that's coming up in just a couple of moments. now our outer circle where we reach out to sources around the world. we begin tonight in greece. talks to form a government failed, and that leaves the state of of greece's government and economy in complete and utter chaos. this is crucial for the rest of the world. new elections could happen in june but no one is sure. with no government to manage the economy and no one to pay the debt or pay anybody that works for the government, there is a real possibility that greece
leaves the euro. you may say so? matthew chance is in athens and i asked him what the consequences would be for the rest of europe and the world if greece goes vamoose. >> reporter: erin, the truth is we're in uncharted waters. one of the main effects immediately it's going to have to greece is that the country will run out of money. it won't be able to pay its bills, its pensions, its state workers' wages, none of these things that i country needs to survive will be need to be paid. it will have to print its own currency, the drachma. that currency is like to drop through the floor when it comes to its valuations against the euro so greece would set itself on a path to a great deal of poverty and economic hard ship. the other impact greece crashing out of the euro may have is the impact of contagion. if greece crashes out of the single currency, what's to stop other debt-laden economies like ireland, like spain, like portugal, like italy from doing
exactly the same thing? up until now, this big european project of getting all these countries together, these diverse countries together, diverse economies together and bringing them all under the umbrella of a single currency has been something that's really dominated european politics. if that ends, if greece exits the euro, that whole project comes to an end and it potentially puts the european union and the cohesion of the european union under threat. and so you can't really overstate the significance of what greece is deciding right now, which direction it will go in. erin. >> all right, thank you very much to matthew chance. europe the biggest trading partner for america so if it falls, major job losses and another deep recession would happen here.
>> it was like a vampire. they came in and sucked the life out of us. >> it was like watching an old friend bleed to death. >> romney camp is not hanging back, rolling out its own video attacking the president's record on debt, announcing plans for a speech on the deficit tomorrow and, i have to say, sending e-mails an finding private phone numbers of members of the media, pr people to send their stats on jobs. david fromme is here, john avlon and michael waldrun also joins us. that is a pretty tough ad. >> that is a tough ad. but i wonder whether it really counts as a pivot to the economy. what exactly is president obama proposing to do? if privatic quit is bad, president obama isn't proposing
to do anything to restrict private equity. all he is saying is you are a bad man. he is not offering an economic critique or an economic alternative. >> okay. do you buy that spin, michael? >> well, i think that part of this is in a sense kind of a brush-back pitch. romney is going to say i've run a big company, i have a successful record and so i can make the critique against president obama and his record. and this is saying, you know, when one thing when governor romney talks, he talks about success and we ought not penalize success. to a lot of people the way he says it sounds a little smug. i think there's a real unease that people have apart from the specifics of bain, let alone the ad, and these are kind of the financialization of the economy that leads to manufacturing firms being hollowed out and that sort of thing. so i think, look, it's certainly not subtle and it's not unexpected. >> not subtle and not
unexpected, but john avlon, certainly something the romney campaign is afraid about. let me go back to emphasizing the point they literally called members of the media on their private cell phones and got their numbers to try to make the case for how bain capital and private equity creates jobs. so they're afraid. >> speaking of how the president wants to be seen, today he gave the commencement address at barnard college. and this is a women's college. so we know he's trying to build
a case to get women's votes. at best it split. leading among women 46 to 43%. but still. >> it's kind of a screwy poll, i have to say. among other things, one of the questions it asks are you less likely to vote for the president on his stance of same-sex marriage. 43% of americans say they won't. some saying i will double absolutely never vote for the president. i don't know how meaningful that is. i wonder the gender gap is usually about ten points. so if it's shrunk to two, that is true. that would be colossal news. the polls also make mistakes. >> john, what's your case? >> i think this is a bit of an outliar. on the end of the other shoe dropping of the president's
decision to back gay marriage. we're seeing troubling gaps. those trends should make the obama camp very nervous as they look to future polls. >> and one thing that could make you very nervous is what came out of this same poll in terms of independents. romney leads by 43% to 36%. that's no margin of error. >> if the numbers for women or the numbers for independents on election day are on this poll, then it's president elect romney. the one bit of good news for president obama in that poll is independents and women and young people were more likely to be supportive of the president's stance on same-sex marriage than other voters. you never know entirely -- it's true. this could play out in a bad way for him or in a good way. remember during the 1960 campaign we all read about, i should stress, wasn't actually playing attention then.
we read about john f. kennedy's outreach to martin luther king's family and the kind of surprising impact that that had. these social issues are not as straight and linear an easy to predict as sometimes the economic indicators are. so this will have ripples. but we don't know in which direction the ripples will go. >> thanks very much to all three of you. we appreciate it. ahead, apple and exxon sitting in a tree. kissing. who does that upset more? apple people or the exxon people? but they are. and we'll tell you why next. [ male announcer ] this is the at&t network.
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"private empire: exxonmobil and american power" it deals with corrupt governments. i spoke to the book's author steve coll about what we as americans should like about exxon. >> i do think they bring out the rule of law wherever they go. they want a world that is stable and safe for oil and gas drilling. one of the ways they promote that is by evangelizing about the importance of the rule of law. and they enforce a universal system of contract. >> all right. so those are pretty good things. probably not good enough. brings me to a company that everybody loves to love. apple. nine months ago, it was the second kbigest company in america. it is now number one. and by a huge margin. measured by market cap, apple is more than 1/3 bigger than exxon. worth more than half a trillion dollars. half a trillion dollars. look at the ipad in your hand,
half a trillion dollars. with that has come scrutiny of keeping money off shore to avoid american taxes. they said they're working to address these things. it is a company seen as the best of america to children around the world. but you know what's interesting? i asked steve coll about whether apple and exxon had anything in common. he said absolutely. they're both closed systems. neither of them like to be written about. they don't have an open door policy for the press. and they have a culture that's strong but set directly from the top. i thought he might have laughed. but it seems there's a lot alike about exxon and apple. here's to being proud that american companies are the leaders in their fields and they hope to continue to become better companies not just bigger ones. tomorrow i'm here in washington at the fiscal summit. it's an issue that will define the power and greatness of our country. this year the super cuts take effect.